Reading Jesus: Part VI Culture vs. Experience.
Have your ideas, beliefs and concepts about God, yourself and others changed over time?
Are you challenged by those who think differently?
It seems that the culture in which one lives or works often defines how and what one believes.
As I reflect on Reading Jesus (see a few of my previous posts) I see Jesus as one who lived in a particualr culture with a particular understanding of God. If you grew-up in Utah and were raised as a Mormon there's a good chance that your ideas, understanding and beliefs about yourself and God were shaped by your cultural. It's the same as if you grew-up in the South and were raised Southern Baptist or Brooklyn and Catholic or India and Hindu.
As I Read Jesus I realize that his understanding and experience of God didn't quite fit the social context of his day. His ideas seemed irrational to many of the "relgious" folks. Jesus broke rules when rules and beliefs got in the way of loving others, justice, or acting compassionate. His method of living and believing didn't mesh with the law-keepers.
Think about it: what have you been taught is the correct belief? Remember the Russians? My beliefs about Russians were formed and shaped by the culture in which I was raised. I guess the same could be said if you are white, black, straight, gay, male, female, etc. But something amazing happens when we allow ourselves-- have the faith-- to enter a different culture-- we change.
For those of you who were raised to avoid hell. How would that shape your understanding of God? Your beliefs about yourself? The Bible? Christianity? It seems we are either moving away from something or toward something. I wonder, if one's belief is that if they don't shape-up and act right they will burn for eternity, if that is moving toward God and love or simply avoiding hell? Is it fear-based, law-based, or love-based?
Jesus' simple teaching on "who is my neighbor?" made the Samaritan (insert any person who you think is the enemy or is excluded from the culture) the hero. It was love-based.
As I Read Jesus it seems that everything he did, believed, taught, and lived was love-based. It wasn't purely cultural belief; getting it right; avoiding hell;etc. that motivated him to live and teach in the way he did; it was his deep understanding of his true, natural self; his deepest identity and his direct, intimate realtionship and experience of God that allowed Jesus to be who he was.
I suspect that is true for all of us.
It's risky to go into our closet and encounter God;it's risky to break the religious rules in a culture; it's risky to speak and live from our direct experience of God; it's risky to abandon all that we are; who we think we are; or who our culture tells us we are; it's risky to befriend one who our dominant culture rejects; But as I Read Jesus, that is what he did.
"The Bible says..." is usually followed by a particular culture's understanding and belief, and not always one's direct experience of the Word made flesh.
I guess it really does take guts to challenge our culture's beliefs about God and to follow Jesus' way, truth and life example. but according to Jesus, that is the narrow path that leads to real life with God, ourselves and others.
15 Comments:
does your culture tell you that jesus is god? or could it be your bible that tells you that.
or, it could be that based on how you describe jesus, that you don't believe that, in which case, makes perfect sense why you keep telling us about how jesus should be viewed through your cultural eyes.
just a thought.
My Bible tells me that Jesus was a man, like you and I, who was perhaps the first man, who through his thoughts and actions, became one with the Love of God and as a result became the Christ, which is the Love of God and the only Son of God.
The Jesus I read called himself the son of man, not the only son of God. When Jesus said that we can only come to the Father through him, I believe that he meant that only by us becoming one with the Love of God, which is the Christ, could we gain admission to where the Father is. That is why Jesus was one with the Father, because through his thoughts and actions he had become the Christ to show us the way.
Just my thoughts when I read Jesus.
Dear anonymous,
Relax.
I have no idea what in the world your comments mean. Whatever they mean, they seem to having NOTHING to do with my post.
Matt,
Thanks for your comments. I appreciate you taking the time to write and tell of your experience.
Thanks for being here.
Before I begin, I'd like to say that Rick has created a truly thought provoking and deeply reflective blog. In my experience with Christian blogs, many folks post comments without serious contemplation. As people who celebrate the Word made flesh, we should be as intentional and grace- filled in our comments as our Father was with his Son. Rick has done just that.
Now to the subject at hand. No doubt we experience Jesus within the confines of our cultural and familial background. However, early church councils and confessional standards made clear that at the very heart of the biblical witness was a Truth that transcended time and cultural interpretation. Paul knew that orthodox doctrine was necessary from the beginning (Eph 4:14). The gospel needed to remain the gospel no matter its temporal locale. This was possible because Christ speaks to the universal human condition rather than just a specific society located in a specific time. Nevertheless, because of our post-modern thinking (my beliefs are as equally “true” as what you believe), doctrine has been silenced in favor of “just wanting to get along.” So, for example, because of improper or dearth of doctrinal education, the doctrine of hell is improperly elevated to that which motivates our “decision” in Christ. Such an understanding was at odds with the Reformers who sought to use it to highlight the amazing nature of grace . An improper understanding of “fear in the Lord” is not the beginning of wisdom.
I know there are biblical scholars out there who would become apoplectic at my assertion of the universality of scripture's message. However, we are faced with the reality that the gospel's message of salvation in Christ has permeated and blossomed in literally every corner of the world – without modern OT or NT critics being there to explain its “REAL” meaning. God's word in Christ, regardless of the societal and political mores, brings love, peace, mercy, justice, and a sense of gratitude for all that surrounds us. It also makes us awesomely aware of a thoroughly sovereign, and holy God. And it's that “holiness” that make me begin to deviate from Rick's understanding.
Many contemporary theologians bandy about the summery ethic of love as if it abrogates the law itself. Yet time and again we see Jesus loving the sinner, but nonetheless requiring repentance from that individual. “Go, and from now on, sin no more,” he said to the prostitute (John 8:11). As disciples, we are called to be set apart in how we live our lives compared to the secular world. And while “love” sounds like a good guide, how does that play itself out when the rubber meets the road? I believe Jesus felt the law should then becomes those bright fog lines to help us stay on the path. John Knox felt that the true marks of the church were not only the correct preaching of the word and the right administration of the sacraments, but discipline. And that discipline meant trying to remonstrate or cull those who failed to live out the “new life” in their baptism. How that life needs to be led brings us right back to scripture. It is certainly “the only rule for faith and obedience” (Westminster Larger Catechism #3). Ultimately, it is this confidence in sola scriptura, that made them subjugate emotive experience to actually knowing what God wants from us in the bible. Scripture, in every time and port, is our anchor to the risen Lord.
Party on Wayne!
calvin, I must agree with some of your comments especially about fearing the Lord. God is always our best friend, never judges us and accepts the love we extend to others as the greatest love we could possibly offer to God. God does not have an ego, like us, therefore has no desire for praise except our good acts toward others.
Ergo, God should never be feared.
I must disagree with your idea that Jesus always required repentance. Jesus never demanded anything, but was merely telling us that even when healed we must be aware that our own actions created our problems in the first place and if we wanted to keep these problems from returning we should change our thoughts and actions. As the Christ, the only son of God, Jesus was telling us that we alone are responsible for our lives.
matt
anonymous wrote does your culture tell you that jesus is god? or could it be your bible that tells you that.
it's a fair point
because while creation points us to God Almighty it's the Bible who shows us Jesus as the son of God while at the same time human. He came to live amongst us (whatever culture we are in) and that's why we need the Bible written in culturally relevent language and in every tongue. :)
Being a Christian - a little Christ - is delightfully counter cultural
and I love it, because I love Him
oh and re repentence - I think living WITH God (as opposed to working hard for him) is what brings about change in us. We are called to become holy - but that's not simply giving up bad things - but actually embracing the good things. If that makes sense.
Jesus freed us from sin and from the shame of the sins we committed - but the slate is not wiped clean in society - what we did still has consequences. His call is universal - and all are welcome - but there is a price - a radical relationship with Jesus will change you. And those around you will see it. And not all of them will like the REAL you.
:)
Matt, from what I hear you saying, you believe we have the capability to extract ourselves from problems stemming from our own sinfulness. I, personally, can't go there. My understanding is that if we have found Christ (this occurring only by a function of the Holy Spirit's power within us,mind you), then only by trusting in our relationship with Him will we be lifted from the mire of our iniquity. When we depend on ourselves to pull ourselves out is when we fail. If we are sinful, how can we possibly grasp at that which is good? We have no way of being able to make that kind of discernment. We are spiritually dead in our sin. Only God can bring the revelation of life in Christ into our lives, and the desire to follow him. It is by God's power alone that our lives experience positive change. When this realization comes to pass, of course Christ requires our lives to exhibit what has changed within us. “You will know them by their fruits (Matt 7:16).”
Also, I still believe in the standard definition of “fear” when it comes to God. My brother, God has the final call on your eternal destiny. That gives Him the perfect right to be acknowledged with, “respectful dread; awe; reverence.” Why else would Paul make the statement, “work out your own salvation in fear and trembling” (Phil 2:12)? The “Jesus my buddy” thing has gone way overboard in making people avoid the reality of Christ sacrificing his life to assuage God's wrath for our sins. God is not remotely fond of sin. Propitiary atonement is well documented in scripture. Fearing God is not a bad thing, but it is only part of our overall relationship with Him. God is God. The one who ever is, was, and shall be. He is no less than Creator of heaven and earth. The Big Kahuna! We should fall prostrate in complete awe of this.
Thanks to each of you for your comments and dialogue.
Calvin, not sure if that name implies John Calvin, and if so, perhaps Calvin's view and understanding of scripture and it's place in a "Christian's" life may have shaped your cultural perspective and understanding of God and Jesus.
You write as if you have some "theological" training (perhaps in second year of seminary)which tells me that you are "thinking theologically". Your mention of the early church councils (2-4th century) were efforts to "define" much about the faith and what one is to "adhere"/believe about Jesus.
I will write more when I have some time.
Thanks,
Rick
Ricky! You can't guess the "mystery" person to have infiltrated your blog? Meow! How's the dumbbell workout going for ya?
As far as Calvinism informing my Christian worldview, I plead unabashedly "guilty!" However, I'll quietly retreat to my usual realm where I apply my Reformed theology. Great blog dude! You have a new and regular reader.
Grace and peace.
Calvin's Corner,
LOL!!! That was great!!! I love you bro!
I spanked you on the seminary comment. :) I knew you were a Presbyterian. You wrote like a second year seminarian... or a very intelligent, passionate pastor who hasn't forgotten what he learned in seminary and is far more intelligent than I will ever be.:)
BTW, calvin was deeply influenced by Augustine who was a Donatist, which may have shaped Augustine's view, and therefore calvin's, thus making my point about how our cultural perspective often shapes our beliefs. Perhpas when we have a better perspective on the culture that shapes our belief, we may then be able to question our beliefs.
As you know, Paul was NOT Orthodox, or at least to the true apostles of Jesus, but he was doing something profound, and it was shaped by his experience of jesus, not "possessing" the correct doctrine-- or READING the "bible" only. His view of scripture shifted and changed when he encountered the One; when he "met" Jesus; although I seriosuly doubt that Jesus would have interpreted scripture and defined slaves and women in the same manner that paul did. Jesus would have broken the "rules"... Jesus would have looked into the heart of why culture wanted to keep women silent and treat them as property. I suspect jesus would have made a lot of folks uncomfortable about their views on women and the church etc. That is why it is absolutely critical that we READ JESUS and stop quoting are Bibles to each other.
Jesus was/is the WORD Made Flesh, and if we refuse to read the WORD Made Flesh, we'll follow Calvin, Paul, Cramner, Rahner, Augustine, Aquinas, Hooker... none by the way, hung on the cross... that was Jesus, the Word Made Flesh.
hey bro, I need you to keep me accountable. I'm glad your here.
The workout rocks!
I love you, bro!
i guess what i enjoy most when i come here is how some are so quick to point out how others have influenced the others thoughts and theology. but there seems to be no mention of how extra biblical influences have shaped the views of others.
i am not sure when we got to the point when some of the bible became more important than others, but, alas, we are here.
the tail we seem to be chasing here is easliy identified.
some believe in the atoning work of christ at the cross, others believe in mans ability to reach god.
one guy even believes as the early gnostics did...jesus attained christhood. way to keep that one going bro. good to see we still have trouble understanding how to communicate with each other.
call it what you will, but we are in a sad state of affairs when we call each other by the same name and have no commonality in which to stand on.
no matter how much of the gospels i read, i cannot find anywhere to understand jesus attaining christhood.
and yes, jesus demanded everything. complete repentance, unless of course you have a version of scripture that leaves that word out. complete dedication. complete loyalty.
i admit it. we are not talking about the same jesus. but thanks for the opp to see that.
My Esteemed Homeboy,
No need to apologize for the “sophomoric” seminary comment, I can take the hit! Smart, hah! Maybe a clever donkey... But I don't think Augustine was Donatist. I'm fairly certain he was actually against the movement. He didn't believe the church was strictly reserved for those without sin – as if that were possible! However, I concede he had a certain level of influence on Calvin. Just as much of your reading from the desert fathers and mystics probably have had an influence on you. More importantly, in your READ JESUS slogan, I sense an earlier Anabaptist train of thought from when you first came to Christ. I'm sensitive (you know, spidey sense...) to this because I'm surrounded by churches who are of this persuasion. I.e., “We don't need no stinkin' creeds or confessions, because all we need to do is read the Bible.” And in my numerous excursions into their midst, I have found wildly disparate theologies that ignore vast portions of scripture. I choose to spend my time reading those who had a much closer chronological position to when the disciples walked the Earth (Augustine, et al), and those whose biblical education and lives were more immersed in their faith walk (Calvin, Westminster divines, etc.).
When I get pugnacious about doctrine, it is because we no longer live in a scripturally literate culture. People scramble around trying to get a handle on these sixty six books that have had a such a profound effect on our culture, many of them do not even know that their understanding of right and wrong stems right from scripture. Doctrine merely provides a systematized look at themes that permeate the bible. It considerably reduces confusion. When I teach stuff like this at church, most folks say it allows them to express, semi-cogently, that which their heart has long felt. To explain is to proclaim my brother.
As far as Paul not being orthodox, I'd like you to explain to me just what you mean by that. Newer Pauline scholars have been doing some wacky things with his epistles. Paul, in my mind, was very concerned about doctrine because he was constantly going around trying to clear up erroneous thinking cause by the teachings of “the other gospel.” He believed an orthodox understanding of Christ led to orthopraxis in how we live.
When it comes down to Paul's views on women and slaves, I'm not sure Jesus would have busted out the whole liberation theology sermon. Even in our twenty first century world, we have places within it that resemble biblical narratives. He would definitely say that no matter the trial, he was there, and would pro-offer the love and hope that keeps us going no matter our situation. Thanks be to God for a Savior who did this for me and all my brothers and sisters in his adopted family.
Keep up the great work.
I love you too.
Dear Calvin's Corner,
I love you bro. I can actually hear you speak when I read your writing, which makes me laugh and say amen at the same time. That's why I miss you. Thanks, brother.
(I'm still smiling ear to ear.)
I actually made a post about why I have been writing about READ JESUS.
Paul, in the eyes of the apostolic fathers (especially Peter and James) was not consider "orthodox" by those who were Jesus' "buddies". Now, he may have been an orthodox jew, but when he encountered jesus, his view of scripture and his mission shifted and changed.
I DO think that Jesus may have taken a different view on slavery and women, like he did the law "eye for eye" etc. I do think God is about liberation and I think Jesus was about liberation of all of humanity. I agree he would say that he was with folks in their suffering and that through it they would see God. In the context of Paul, however, I think he may be more liberating.
We took the same classes; love the same God; read the same Word; are passionate about Christ; and come to different understandings. That's what makes it beautiful. Sort of like Paul and Peter.
And I agree with you, I am deeply influenced by the desert fathers and mystics, which form my perspective on God and Jesus-- which make s my point about how we come to faith... and I too have watched your faith "shift" over the years. :)
I am so delighted to see you here and find your poetic, passionate love of God poured out. That is one reason I love and admire you.
BTW, always remember, The Episcopal Church Welcome You. :)
Did you forget I spent nearly the first 13 years of my life as an Episcopalian - Mom is still trying to get me to jump ship! And I am still the Episcopal Church's number one fan of the common cup. I wish more Presbyterians were not such germaphobes. The unity expressed in doing the Eucharist that way rocks!
You know that you are a statistical anomaly among Episcopal priests, right? That's why they are so blessed to have you.
O.K., I'm stopping the tea-party thing so others can be enjoined in the fun.
Enjoy the beach, Ricardo!
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